DrupalWomenQ-#7442

How do I find the parent of a child born 1840 VA who does not match the DNA of his census father?

0 Answers

  1. clcrss wrote on :

    I would try searching family trees at http://trees.ancestry.com/Default.aspx?req=tree to see if someone else has additional info regarding your ancestors … sometimes when you have done all you can, it helps to get input on others researching the same family line. clcs

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  2. Ultimate-Genealogy wrote on :

    Could your John and Mary Pyatt be the same John and Mary Piatt just that he changes the spelling of his last name? I had relatives do that and it looked to be two different families and it wasn’t.

    Is he the John S. Pyatt that married Margaret Kathryne “Mary” Snyder?
    1860 census shows a John Pyatte working for a family (Koonze) District of Nicholas, Nicholas, Virginia
    I find John’s birth as either June 16, 1840 or 1842 Nicholas Co, West VA and death to be Feb 13, 1896 Cuba, Jackson, W. VA buried Mt. Hope Cemetery Trace Fork, Jackson Co, W VA, married on Sept 18, 1864 in Mason, W. VA
    Parents listed as William Pyatt and Mary Margaret Smith I have seen her born in NJ and Petersburg, Dinwiddle, VA and dying in Hamilton, Nicholas, W VA she married to William Nov 17, 1814 in Augusta, VA.

    http://www.ultimate-genealogy.com/

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    • triedit wrote on :

      This is where the information posted online gets tangled. My John S and MMC Snider lived in Mason Co, WV through 1880. The other, likely born 1842 in Ohio, and his wife Mary were in Jackson County in 1880. And of course neither show up in 1890 or 1910. HOWEVER….Mary Pyatt, widowed, of Ohio (meaning not my Mary) does show up widowed in 1900 with her children, who are not my line. My Mary also shows up widowed in 1900, living in the same county and district, in the household of her son Edward. My John’s last child was born 1885, so we know he died between then and 1900.

      All I know about Mary Smith is that her dads name was Martin and he died before her marriage. We know from DNA that he had a wife before Mary Smith, as there are three children and the line of the men have been tested. We do not, however, know who William Pyatt’s father was, although he appears to be related to Ann and Benjamin who were also in Virginia at the time. William matches DNA from the “original” Piatt/Pijet ancestor who settled on Manhattan in the 1600’s. Information about this family is at http://www.piattresearchers.net.

      So yeah, you’re on the right track but still at the same point I am. If you have more on Mary Smith though, that would be helpful. I lean toward her being born in Petersburg, but NJ is just as possible.

      Reply
    • Ultimate-Genealogy wrote on :

      I don’t have anything else at this time. I did a free 1 hour search on your behalf and posted what I found. I think it would take many more hours/days searching and sorting. Since the families are together in the same time frame I would speculate that the 2 families are related.

      I have many lines where brothers all named their children the same name and all married around the same time and yes married women with the same first names and all lived in the same county and started families at the same time and all gave birth in the same years and in some cases on the same date and month. It took years to sort through all the records before I was able to put which person with which particular sibling line.county I’d also check W. VA vital records http://www.wvculture.org/vrr/va_select.aspx

      An image for this record may be available at: http://www.wvculture.org Fees may apply.
      Name: Edward William Pyatt
      Death Date: 19 Jun 1923
      Death Place: Jackson, West Virginia
      Father’s Name: John Pyatt
      Mother’s Name: Mary Snyder
      Film Number: 1953103
      Digital Folder Number: 4257672
      Image Number: 2208
      Source: County Records
      Reference Number: 8184

      Maybe some county histories would turn up the connection or further information.

      http://www.ultimate-genealogy.com/

      Reply
    • triedit wrote on :

      Thanks for your help. I am an ancestry member and am well aware of the archives project (I live in Canada but was raised in WV–only moved about 10 years ago). Ive personally been through every death record in Jackson, Wood, and Mason counties and my John isn’t there. Im guessing they just buried him on the farm. Ive been to the church where the other John is buried and they have his record, as well as MY Mary….I don’t know what happened to his Mary LOL. ALL of these Pyatts (and 98% of them in the US) trace back to Rene in NJ. Except mine, of course, whose DNA isnt Pyatt…..

      Reply
  3. dpeytent wrote on :

    I believe Virginia has birth records back to 1853, and that may not be all birth records in respective counties. You can try searching Virginia marriage records in the county for the child’s mother (if you know her maiden name) to determine whether she was married to someone before the gentleman you found in the census and it was recorded. You may also try baptismal records if you know the parish in the respective county to see if they archive records back that far. Perhaps a search of census records for the mother’s maiden name in 1840 or 1830 will give you surnames of neighbors; however, this is a time consuming evaluation. Perhaps a search of tax records prior to and including 1840, looking for the mother’s maiden name will give you names of neighbors as well. Have you tried to obtain a death record for the person in question who was born in 1840? If such a record exists, it may include the birth father’s name. We need to search extensively for sources when dealing with early 19th century records because of the lack of or inconsistent maintenance of vital recordkeeping such as births, marriages and deaths. Hope this helps.

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  4. GenFriend wrote on :

    You have a lot of good suggestions already, but with the extra information that you added, here are a few more. Check some documents that you may not have considered before: church records, military pension records, probate records as well as the will records, most especially loose court papers. The minutes from court in Nicholas Co. VA may give you some information that you haven’t found already. I have found spellings of Peatt, Piatt, Pyatt, Peatte, and others in the Nicholas County area. Keep in mind that the person you are searching for may not have kept the same spelling from one document to another. Also, within a family, different family members may have spelled the name differently. Computers require standardized spelling, but in the 1800’s, it did not matter nearly as much.

    Google “Nicholas Co VA” and Pyatt to look at the work others have done on this family. Look for the names of others in records, witnesses to wills, bondsment for marriages, etc. Look again at the census to find the names of the neighboring families and trace out any pairings between your family and these others. Try looking for genforums for the Pyatt family to link up with others who may have information that can help.
    A link that looked interesting and might help is this one; http://www.angelfire.com/ar/pyeatt/William.html or
    http://www.angelfire.com/ar/pyeatt/JSP1842.html
    You might also find some information here:
    http://www.mytrees.com/family/PYATT-WILLIAM.html

    I hope this helps a bit.

    Reply
  5. nanjones wrote on :

    Also try church records for the area. The baptisms were recorded. Those records might be archived in the demoninations history center, seminary, or at the local church. If the building still stadns and has changed demoninations, they might still have the records( happened to me).

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  6. redpak wrote on :

    Do you have information on his mother? that would be the trail to take. finding any information on her. Track if she was married before. Are there any legal records. If he was born in 1840, did he serve in the Civil War?I hope this helps.

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  7. triedit wrote on :

    Sorry folks, I should have included more info. Im new to FoF!
    Son is born 1840 in Nicholas Co, VA (now WV) and I have been unable to locate a birth certificate, especially since I don’t have a day of birth. Census Mom and Dad married for many years with older children, although Dad does have a previous marriage I believe. There are women in the household old enough to bear children (unmarried) and Census Mom is in her 50’s. DNA tests have been done on brother lines and do not match. All males who descend from John do match. DNA matches to surname Brown which is a close neighbor, so that is my top suspect. Child married, relocated to Jackson Co, WV where he died but I have found no death or burial information beyond family lore. To complicate things, there is another John Piatt (mine is John Pyatt) with wife Mary (as is my line) in the same county at time of death. Isnt this fun?

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  8. MaryDouglass wrote on :

    Was the mother married previously? Search the appropriate VA counties for prior marriages. The mother may have been widowed while pregnant and remarried quickly to provide for her children. I have this situation in one of my early VA families. Another scenario is that this child was the result of an extra-marital affair and you may never learn the name of the biological father. Check out the friends, associates, and neighbors of the mother for potential fathers.

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  9. VMAH wrote on :

    Dear Triedit,
    In addition to all of the good advice already given, I would just add that if I were to effectively help you, I would have to know more about the people you are researching. There is not one route, alone, which will lead you to your answer.

    Valerie

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  10. Islandmotivated wrote on :

    I have just finished proving Indian lineage for my husband through census data that I was able to find through searching family tree members and sending out a lot of emails. It took me over 1 year annd yet he just got approved by the BIA from Sacremento . I spent about 4 to 5 hours a day and yet I found a huge amount of family he never knew he had and proof without a shadow of a doubt.

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  11. Genteacher wrote on :

    Snce the collection of birth records in the Dept. of Vital Records for the State of Virginia does not begin until 1853, you will need to access baptism or christening records for the parish church. There are many circumstances which would produce this situation – adoption, guardianship, and of course adultery on the part of the mother who then passed the child off as being that of the man listed on the census form as his father. Finding the birth record in a parish church archive would identify who was being cited as the legal parents. If the father on the birth record is the same as the census father – then there is the possibility of adultery. If the father on the birth record is someone else, then the mother may have been married before and possibly widowed. The census father may have adopted the child. Local records are going to be the most help – local church records, local town court records for an adoption, etc. What census are you looking at,and how old is the child at the time? Have you checked previous census records or subsequent ones? Many times members of the family took in a relative’s child and raised them as their own. Have you found records on this child as he grew up – marriage documents, death records. Or, do you have records of the census father – his will, land records, his marriage records (did he marry someone with children from a previous marriage?) You need lots more information – you cannot go by just the census and DNA. I hope this helps. Goodluck!
    http://www.askagenealogist.com email:genteacher65yahoo.com

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  12. Galapoochi wrote on :

    It appears that you already have DNA from the census father and from descendants of the child born 1840 in VA – otherwise, how would you have known that they do not match? I would suggest that http://www.familytreedna.com should be your first stop – they have been compiling a tremendous database of DNA and related gedcoms and have made a number of free tools available on their site so that people can compare DNA testing results. After that, I would research the mother to see if it is possible that she was married to someone else previously. Otherwise, church records, wills and probate records, newspaper archives and private family histories will offer you information which might point you in the right direction.

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  13. Ultimate-Genealogy wrote on :

    When I answered originally I was focused on the DNA part of the question. The other points that should be looked into: Is the child from a previous marriage? Did the mothers sister or brother die leaving a father with a small child to raise and it was too much for him? If so lots of times a sister, aunt or cousin would take in the child as their own. You should see if there is a will left from the father, it would most likely list the wife and child and possibly it would have in case of my death so and so will look after/take charge of my child XXXX. Also look for obit to see if you get a fathers name it might name the wife and child. Looking for church baptism records and marriage and death records they can be quite helpful as they usually list both parents names. The child could also be listed with another family in the census if they were working for the family or sent to work off a family debt or the help out the family situation. And my last thought is the child could be adopted. Hope that helps some. It is hard to just guess not knowing all the details.

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  14. Melin_Swango711 wrote on :

    The child would probably have been the son or daughter of the father’s wife by a previous husband. First of all, check marriage records. If this does not prove to be an answer, then the child might have been an adoptee from the mother’s side of the famly or from a neighbor or associate. This would mean a broad search.

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  15. trishc wrote on :

    Without knowing particulars, I would have to guess. Possibly the child may have been from the mother’s previous marriage, a relative who was left orphaned, or an adopted child. You will need to search for specific documents for clues; court records, marriage records, an estate, and church records (depending on their religion). This one may be a toughy, start with documents on the parents, then search for documents on the child.

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  16. rrjwj wrote on :

    I would check for church records. The Fathers name may have been recorded. If you know or can search where this person is buried you may be able to find what church he came from. Or if you find a death certificate on the person. Sometimes all you have to do is google the persons name or surname and you can come up with some information. There is always the Virginia Library where there are Bible Records of Virginia families. If you like I could find the name and email address. I found bible records, a diary of my ancestors and a story of the Civil War. I was able to put several more people on my family tree. It is worth a try. Rachel

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  17. CRoberts wrote on :

    Hello!
    The first step in any genealogical problem is to determine what sources might be best suitable to answer the question. It is also helpful to think through what life situation would cause this result. For example, is it possible that the mother was previously married? How old was she when this 1840 birth occurred? Was she already married to the census father at that time, and do you have that marriage record? If based on other evidence you think it’s possible she could have been previously married, you will want to perform a search to see if such a marriage record exists.

    If the only information you currently have is census and DNA data, there are many other sources which could help to answer your question. Assuming the child lived in Virginia, the Library of Virginia has an Archives Division in Richmond, with vital records beginning in 1853. See if you can find this child’s marriage and death records, which might state the parents’ names. For the mother’s marriage(s) prior to 1853, you may be able to find a Marriage Bond or a church record. You can also search newspaper archives to see if an obituary for this child exists, which could possibly state the father’s name, as well as searching for a baptism record for the child.

    I hope this answers your question and gives you some ideas for further research.
    Chris

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  18. tinarozelle wrote on :

    I would begin by checking the courthouse records to see if his spouse had been married previously. Also check probate records to see if head of household had a will. It could state who the child is to him. Also, church records of that area or bond records. Let me know if I can be of any help Tina
    info@southernfamilyhistory.net

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  19. FromAAA wrote on :

    If you are wanting to search, based on DNA only, then I would default to someone with specific information about that. If you are looking for further input, with only the census as your source, I would look to other records, ie birth certificates or church records based on the maternal line.
    I hope I did not oversimplify. Good luck!

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  20. sshayward wrote on :

    Unfortunately, in the 1840 census only the name of the head of household was given. The child could be adopted or may be the child of the spouse. Also, sometimes a family would take in a child of a neighbor or another family member if the parents died or they had difficulty taking care of the children.
    Is the surname of the child and father the same?
    Do you know the maiden name of the mother? If you know the mother’s maiden name, check the surnames of the neighbors in the census report. Perhaps the father married a woman who already had children and the children took his name.
    Sometimes you can use the GenWeb to find additional information besides the census reports. For the state genwebs just put in the state initial (i.e. ILGENWEB, COGENWEB, VAGENWEB, etc.). The main page will generally give you a county list that you can select from. Visit the county pages and see if there is a match of any surnames or if vitals are provided. Sometimes you can place queries on these county sites for more information. These volunteers have proven very useful to me.
    Other items you might look for could be the father’s will or land records. I have read a will from one of my ancestors that ensures that the child they took in is cared for.
    Hope this helps!

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  21. Ultimate-Genealogy wrote on :

    I would locate and any living male descendants of the child and see if they would be willing to do DNA testing. Once you have his DNA you can cross check it with his fathers DNA (which I assume you have to come up with this question) and look for mutations to make sure if there is or is not a connection, even one of a cousin. If you are positive the listed father is not his father I would then search places like ttp://www.ybase.org http://www.ysearch.org and see if anyone has tested that matches your “child.” Otherwise I would look to see what family histories may have been done and see if there is any mention, check local histories of people that were living near the area and see if any had their DNA tested. There are many other options as well. Let me know if you need further ideas.

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